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	<title>Comments on: Laying It All Out</title>
	<atom:link href="http://jonwhipple.com/blog/2009/08/08/laying-it-all-out/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://jonwhipple.com/blog/2009/08/08/laying-it-all-out/</link>
	<description>Design, nerdery, opinions and more, for your consideration and possible enjoyment.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 14:17:17 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: silmasan</title>
		<link>http://jonwhipple.com/blog/2009/08/08/laying-it-all-out/comment-page-1/#comment-12587</link>
		<dc:creator>silmasan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonwhipple.com/blog/?p=82#comment-12587</guid>
		<description>Hey thanks Mr Host! Excactly what i&#039;m looking for: expert opinion on inexpensive ID/Quark alternatives.

Your comments on the publishers&#039; website and their product&#039;s page are spot on. I quickly eliminated some of the choices based on this criteria alone. Face value, indeed, but very relevant to the product i&#039;m looking for. I want to get it from developers who know good design and *live* good design.

And good design done inexpensively is even better ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey thanks Mr Host! Excactly what i&#8217;m looking for: expert opinion on inexpensive ID/Quark alternatives.</p>
<p>Your comments on the publishers&#8217; website and their product&#8217;s page are spot on. I quickly eliminated some of the choices based on this criteria alone. Face value, indeed, but very relevant to the product i&#8217;m looking for. I want to get it from developers who know good design and *live* good design.</p>
<p>And good design done inexpensively is even better ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph</title>
		<link>http://jonwhipple.com/blog/2009/08/08/laying-it-all-out/comment-page-1/#comment-12059</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 May 2010 10:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonwhipple.com/blog/?p=82#comment-12059</guid>
		<description>Coming to this very late following a Google search. This has to be the most authoritative overview available, so thanks.

Thanks also to those who have commented and pointed out the advantages of Pages. I think I&#039;m going to go that route and get to grips with its functionality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coming to this very late following a Google search. This has to be the most authoritative overview available, so thanks.</p>
<p>Thanks also to those who have commented and pointed out the advantages of Pages. I think I&#8217;m going to go that route and get to grips with its functionality.</p>
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		<title>By: Ulf Dunkel</title>
		<link>http://jonwhipple.com/blog/2009/08/08/laying-it-all-out/comment-page-1/#comment-11432</link>
		<dc:creator>Ulf Dunkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 16:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonwhipple.com/blog/?p=82#comment-11432</guid>
		<description>Thank you so much, Jon, for your great review. 
And of course we will not ignore your critical notes about this and that in iCalamus. :-)

Oh yes, discussions about web design and beauty ... 
I&#039;m a Jakob Nielsen fan. But we will relaunch a new web design in 2010. Any suggestions are really welcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you so much, Jon, for your great review.<br />
And of course we will not ignore your critical notes about this and that in iCalamus. :-)</p>
<p>Oh yes, discussions about web design and beauty &#8230;<br />
I&#8217;m a Jakob Nielsen fan. But we will relaunch a new web design in 2010. Any suggestions are really welcome.</p>
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		<title>By: Herbert van der Wegen</title>
		<link>http://jonwhipple.com/blog/2009/08/08/laying-it-all-out/comment-page-1/#comment-10623</link>
		<dc:creator>Herbert van der Wegen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonwhipple.com/blog/?p=82#comment-10623</guid>
		<description>Honestly, where&#039;s PageStream? Why did you not include PageStream? http://www.grasshopperllc.com/

It has been on the market since 1986(!), started out on the Amiga and AtariST, and is available for more hardware platforms and OS versions than any other DTP app (even Amiga is still supported). Please do have a look at PageStream, since I feel it deserves much more publicity than it currently enjoys. 

A universal binary is available (even classic mac is still supported).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, where&#8217;s PageStream? Why did you not include PageStream? <a href="http://www.grasshopperllc.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.grasshopperllc.com/</a></p>
<p>It has been on the market since 1986(!), started out on the Amiga and AtariST, and is available for more hardware platforms and OS versions than any other DTP app (even Amiga is still supported). Please do have a look at PageStream, since I feel it deserves much more publicity than it currently enjoys. </p>
<p>A universal binary is available (even classic mac is still supported).</p>
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		<title>By: Warren</title>
		<link>http://jonwhipple.com/blog/2009/08/08/laying-it-all-out/comment-page-1/#comment-9573</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonwhipple.com/blog/?p=82#comment-9573</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m coming to this discussion very late; I found this article while Googling for alternatives to InDesign. (Briefly, I&#039;m becoming increasingly disenchanted with Adobe, but that&#039;s irrelevant to this topic.)

Based on this review and the comments I&#039;ll be looking very closely at iCalamus and Pages, but I wanted to address Scribus.

Yes, there&#039;s a Mac port now, and yes, I have downloaded and tested it, and frankly, Scribus is &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; ready for prime time.

To begin, when you double-click a Scribus file in the Finder, you end up with the app splash and a blank window. If you try it again with Scribus already loaded, the file still won&#039;t open. You must use Scribus&#039;s built-in File menu to open extant documents on your Mac.

The open/save file dialog box is also not Finder standard; it feels very much like a port from XWindows to OSX, which it almost certainly is -- not an issue for well-rounded users, but annoying.

Setting type in Scribus is extremely disappointing. It doesn&#039;t appear to use Mac&#039;s engine, and it doesn&#039;t support ligatures. Also, its default font settings are used in any text frame, even if you&#039;ve already changed the typeface and point size. (That is, if you&#039;ve set the frame to use Caslon and you CR a couple of times to enter more type, the new text is entered in the font defaults, not the settings for that frame.) The default font is also set to manual leading. Very, very odd way of doing things.

But where Scribus really falls flat is in PDF production. Anything set to export to CMYK colorspace ends up with the colors washed and very strongly magenta. This is not true with an SVG export, but I don&#039;t know of many print houses that can slap an SVG into a plate burner. They expect PDFs.

Also the exported documents are far too large. I created a single page file containing one scaled PDF (pure vector, about 300KB), one text frame, and one JPEG (3.5 MB) that exported to &quot;prepress&quot; PDF as 10+ MB of data. It was nearly 12 MB for the SVG.

This is simply not adequate for serious prepress layout. Scribus&#039;s controls aren&#039;t godawful, but all  the interface in the world is meaningless if you can&#039;t package a finished product suitable for print production.

Nonetheless thanks for a fine review. I&#039;ll be adding this blog to my list of regularly-read RSS feeds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m coming to this discussion very late; I found this article while Googling for alternatives to InDesign. (Briefly, I&#8217;m becoming increasingly disenchanted with Adobe, but that&#8217;s irrelevant to this topic.)</p>
<p>Based on this review and the comments I&#8217;ll be looking very closely at iCalamus and Pages, but I wanted to address Scribus.</p>
<p>Yes, there&#8217;s a Mac port now, and yes, I have downloaded and tested it, and frankly, Scribus is <b>not</b> ready for prime time.</p>
<p>To begin, when you double-click a Scribus file in the Finder, you end up with the app splash and a blank window. If you try it again with Scribus already loaded, the file still won&#8217;t open. You must use Scribus&#8217;s built-in File menu to open extant documents on your Mac.</p>
<p>The open/save file dialog box is also not Finder standard; it feels very much like a port from XWindows to OSX, which it almost certainly is &#8212; not an issue for well-rounded users, but annoying.</p>
<p>Setting type in Scribus is extremely disappointing. It doesn&#8217;t appear to use Mac&#8217;s engine, and it doesn&#8217;t support ligatures. Also, its default font settings are used in any text frame, even if you&#8217;ve already changed the typeface and point size. (That is, if you&#8217;ve set the frame to use Caslon and you CR a couple of times to enter more type, the new text is entered in the font defaults, not the settings for that frame.) The default font is also set to manual leading. Very, very odd way of doing things.</p>
<p>But where Scribus really falls flat is in PDF production. Anything set to export to CMYK colorspace ends up with the colors washed and very strongly magenta. This is not true with an SVG export, but I don&#8217;t know of many print houses that can slap an SVG into a plate burner. They expect PDFs.</p>
<p>Also the exported documents are far too large. I created a single page file containing one scaled PDF (pure vector, about 300KB), one text frame, and one JPEG (3.5 MB) that exported to &#8220;prepress&#8221; PDF as 10+ MB of data. It was nearly 12 MB for the SVG.</p>
<p>This is simply not adequate for serious prepress layout. Scribus&#8217;s controls aren&#8217;t godawful, but all  the interface in the world is meaningless if you can&#8217;t package a finished product suitable for print production.</p>
<p>Nonetheless thanks for a fine review. I&#8217;ll be adding this blog to my list of regularly-read RSS feeds.</p>
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		<title>By: Desktop Publishing (DTP) Alternatives to Adobe InDesign and QuarkXPress</title>
		<link>http://jonwhipple.com/blog/2009/08/08/laying-it-all-out/comment-page-1/#comment-8697</link>
		<dc:creator>Desktop Publishing (DTP) Alternatives to Adobe InDesign and QuarkXPress</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonwhipple.com/blog/?p=82#comment-8697</guid>
		<description>[...] they have the verdict of the best alternative layout application for a Mac here, which I will let you read yourself! I wonder if these alternative apps 2 Adobe [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] they have the verdict of the best alternative layout application for a Mac here, which I will let you read yourself! I wonder if these alternative apps 2 Adobe [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://jonwhipple.com/blog/2009/08/08/laying-it-all-out/comment-page-1/#comment-8597</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 05:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonwhipple.com/blog/?p=82#comment-8597</guid>
		<description>I enjoy your writing style - brutally honest, entirely understandable, slightly sarcastic, sufficiently detailed, --  maybe you ought to think about a career change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoy your writing style &#8211; brutally honest, entirely understandable, slightly sarcastic, sufficiently detailed, &#8212;  maybe you ought to think about a career change.</p>
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		<title>By: Kilian</title>
		<link>http://jonwhipple.com/blog/2009/08/08/laying-it-all-out/comment-page-1/#comment-8532</link>
		<dc:creator>Kilian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonwhipple.com/blog/?p=82#comment-8532</guid>
		<description>I know most of the apps and to be honest, Pages doesn&#039;t need to hide behind them. I think it would have been good to include it in the review, because in many ways it is unexpectedly superior to most of the other apps.

I personally have ditched Create (because of the abysmally bad GUI and its quirky ways) and am now using Pages for peronsal layouts (of course I cannot yet rid myself of InDesign...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know most of the apps and to be honest, Pages doesn&#8217;t need to hide behind them. I think it would have been good to include it in the review, because in many ways it is unexpectedly superior to most of the other apps.</p>
<p>I personally have ditched Create (because of the abysmally bad GUI and its quirky ways) and am now using Pages for peronsal layouts (of course I cannot yet rid myself of InDesign&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://jonwhipple.com/blog/2009/08/08/laying-it-all-out/comment-page-1/#comment-8505</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 05:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonwhipple.com/blog/?p=82#comment-8505</guid>
		<description>Wow, I was hot to trot to see your analysis... But you missed the most likely candidate: Pages! Why? I have jettisoned most of my client inDesign projects for Pages... it is simply simpler, and yet still creates a viable PDF for print. (even though I still teach inDesign... because of Windoz popularity of Adobe)
In Pages, Tables are a joy, and once the interface is understood (iWeb, Keynote, Pages... etc) they all work the same!!! and not with the &quot;All Things to All People&quot; complexity of Adobe. Easy to train clients to edit their own templates in Pages too! Editing in full screen, without distractions is great also... But don&#039;t tell anyone... &#039;cause inDesign is so Hard to learn it must be good. Few designers need an 18-Wheeler to master... so it keeps me teaching! But in my practice, I prefer Pages!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I was hot to trot to see your analysis&#8230; But you missed the most likely candidate: Pages! Why? I have jettisoned most of my client inDesign projects for Pages&#8230; it is simply simpler, and yet still creates a viable PDF for print. (even though I still teach inDesign&#8230; because of Windoz popularity of Adobe)<br />
In Pages, Tables are a joy, and once the interface is understood (iWeb, Keynote, Pages&#8230; etc) they all work the same!!! and not with the &#8220;All Things to All People&#8221; complexity of Adobe. Easy to train clients to edit their own templates in Pages too! Editing in full screen, without distractions is great also&#8230; But don&#8217;t tell anyone&#8230; &#8217;cause inDesign is so Hard to learn it must be good. Few designers need an 18-Wheeler to master&#8230; so it keeps me teaching! But in my practice, I prefer Pages!</p>
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		<title>By: Christiaan</title>
		<link>http://jonwhipple.com/blog/2009/08/08/laying-it-all-out/comment-page-1/#comment-8427</link>
		<dc:creator>Christiaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonwhipple.com/blog/?p=82#comment-8427</guid>
		<description>Jon, to be fair, I don&#039;t think Word comes anywhere near Pages as a layout tool. The main software we&#039;ve displaced by adopting Pages is InDesign. It would be a disservice to Pages to relegate it to being just a Word competitor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, to be fair, I don&#8217;t think Word comes anywhere near Pages as a layout tool. The main software we&#8217;ve displaced by adopting Pages is InDesign. It would be a disservice to Pages to relegate it to being just a Word competitor.</p>
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